[AO discussion] ug text recommendation

Wed Jan 2 20:45:30 UTC 2008

Anders -
    I just tried visiting
http://imgi.uibk.ac.at/MEhrendorfer/reseach/talks/o_talks/
and received a "not found" error.
     - John
On Dec 16, 2007, at 11:56 AM, Persson Anders wrote:

> Shafer,
>  
> At http://imgi.uibk.ac.at/MEhrendorfer/reseach/talks/o_talks/
>  
> you will find some ppt-presentations of mine labled
>  
> "7 sins" or "Dyn Met" which address some, in my view, fundamental  
> errors in the teaching of dynamic meteorology, not only today but some  
> generations back in time. The emphasis has always been on the formal  
> mathematical derivations and not also on the physical understanding.  
> It seems that the idea has been that if you can do the mathematical  
> derivation correctly, you have also understood the physics of he  
> system.
>  
> Anders
>
> From: discuss-bounces at atmosocean.org on behalf of Noboru Nakamura
> Sent: Thu 13/12/2007 10:19
> To: discuss at atmosocean.org; Shafer Smith
> Subject: Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation
>
> Shafer,
>
> I think the recommendation depends on your course's emphasis.  At the  
> level you are aiming at, I assume "weather/climate" cannot be just  
> fluid dynamics but has to present the atmosphere and ocean (plus  
> geosphere and biosphere) as interacting elements of the climate  
> system, including the radiation balance of the planet.  I only looked  
> at the precursor version of Marshall and Plumb on the web and they  
> seem to attempt at this, but yes perhaps at a somewhat advanced level.
>
> I too in the past looked for a good undergraduate text on the subject,  
> and I wasn't completely satisfied.  Wells (2nd Ed) is a decent book  
> (albeit the glitches that other commentators pointed out), but it  
> cannot be a one-stop reference for modern climate dynamics.  In the  
> upper-class undergraduate course "Atmosphere and Ocean in Motion," I  
> use Wallace and Hobbs (2nd Ed; the first two chapters are an excellent  
> intro to climate system) and Stewart's open source Physical  
> Oceanography text  
> (http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/ocng_textbook/contents.html) for  
> reading assignments, but I use my own lecture notes and problem sets.   
> Typical lab demonstrations include Coriolis force, sink vortex  
> (hurricanes), Taylor-Proudman vs thermal winds, jetstream,  
> and Stommel-Arons.  It will be good if the text fully explains the  
> demonstrations (as in Marshall and Plumb), but a simple show-and-tell  
> is usually enough to grab the students' attention; you can easily  
> expand your lectures around the demos and connect with theories and  
> observations.
>
> Maybe we'll talk about these in depth at the upcoming teaching  
> workshop.
> http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~nnn/workshop/
>
> Cheers,
>
> Noboru Nakamura
> Department of Geophysical Sciences
> University of Chicago
>
>
>> Shafer,
>>
>> Yes, I can highly recommend it since it conveys the author's great  
>> insight and love of the ocean system. The only black spot is a  
>> erroneous explanation of the Coriolis effect, following the common  
>> Hadley (1735) explanation, if I remember correctly. Hopefully that  
>> has changed in the new edition. For a correct one, consult Roland  
>> Stull's book on practical meteorology.
>>
>> Regarding the Hadley explanation, I have just had a paper accepted by  
>> the Roy Met Soc where I show that it not only partly wrong, but 100%  
>> wrong: the differences of speeds of the latitudes has NOTHING at all  
>> to do with the Coriolis effect.
>>
>> There is also a good book on dynamics of ocean and atmosphere by a  
>> Belgian-American author whose double name I cannot remember just now.
>>
>> Anders
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: discuss-bounces at atmosocean.org on behalf of Remi Tailleux
>> Sent: Wed 12/12/2007 10:01 PM
>> To: shafer at cims.nyu.edu; discuss at atmosocean.org
>> Subject: Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation
>>
>>    Hi Shafer,
>>
>> you may have a look at Neil Wells textbook, Atmosphere/Ocean a  
>> physical
>> introduction, Wiley, which although somewhat dated (a new edition is
>> underway), seems an appropriate introduction at the undergrad level  
>> you are
>> referring to....
>>
>> Good luck,
>> best wishes,
>> Remi.
>>
>> On Dec 12 2007, Shafer Smith wrote:
>>
>> >Dear colleagues,
>> >
>> > I'm looking for a recommendation for an undergraduate text on
>> > weather/climate. In particular, looking for something one notch (or  
>> half
>> > notch) lower level than the new book by Marshall and Plumb. As
>> > calibration, the course on which Marshall and Plumb is based at MIT  
>> has a
>> > prerequisite of multivariate calculus and physics I; I'm shooting  
>> for
>> > something appropriate to students who know 1d calculus and a little
>> > physics. Ideally the course will employ rotating tank  
>> demonstrations. Any
>> > comments or recommendations welcome!
>> >
>> >Thanks in advance,
>> >Shafer
>> >
>> >
>>
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________________________________________________
John W. Nielsen-Gammon
Professor and Texas State Climatologist
Dept. of Atmospheric Sciences, Texas A&M University (O&M Rm 1012A)
3150 TAMUS, College Station, TX 77843-3150
Ph 979-862-2248  Fax 979-862-4466
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