[AO discussion] ug text recommendation

Thu Jan 3 09:02:08 UTC 2008

Sorry,

A little underscore between o and talks at the end of the web address made the whole thing collapse.
Here are, hopefully, better options

http://imgi.uibk.ac.at/MEhrendorfer/research/talks/o_talks/Innsbruck_DynMet_Corr2007.pdf

http://imgi.uibk.ac.at/MEhrendorfer/research/talks/o_talks/

Anders

________________________________

From: Persson Anders
Sent: Sun 16/12/2007 18:56
To: discuss at atmosocean.org; discuss at atmosocean.org; Shafer Smith
Subject: ug text recommendation

Shafer,

At http://imgi.uibk.ac.at/MEhrendorfer/reseach/talks/o_talks/

you will find some ppt-presentations of mine labled

"7 sins" or "Dyn Met" which address some, in my view, fundamental errors in the teaching of dynamic meteorology, not only today but some generations back in time. The emphasis has always been on the formal mathematical derivations and not also on the physical understanding. It seems that the idea has been that if you can do the mathematical derivation correctly, you have also understood the physics of he system.

Anders

________________________________

From: discuss-bounces at atmosocean.org on behalf of Noboru Nakamura
Sent: Thu 13/12/2007 10:19
To: discuss at atmosocean.org; Shafer Smith
Subject: Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation

Shafer,

I think the recommendation depends on your course's emphasis.  At the level you are aiming at, I assume "weather/climate" cannot be just fluid dynamics but has to present the atmosphere and ocean (plus geosphere and biosphere) as interacting elements of the climate system, including the radiation balance of the planet.  I only looked at the precursor version of Marshall and Plumb on the web and they seem to attempt at this, but yes perhaps at a somewhat advanced level.

I too in the past looked for a good undergraduate text on the subject, and I wasn't completely satisfied.  Wells (2nd Ed) is a decent book (albeit the glitches that other commentators pointed out), but it cannot be a one-stop reference for modern climate dynamics.  In the upper-class undergraduate course "Atmosphere and Ocean in Motion," I use Wallace and Hobbs (2nd Ed; the first two chapters are an excellent intro to climate system) and Stewart's open source Physical Oceanography text (http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/ocng_textbook/contents.html <https://vpnserver-pub.smhi.se/http/0/oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/ocng_textbook/contents.html> ) for reading assignments, but I use my own lecture notes and problem sets.  Typical lab demonstrations include Coriolis force, sink vortex (hurricanes), Taylor-Proudman vs thermal winds, jetstream, and Stommel-Arons.  It will be good if the text fully explains the demonstrations (as in Marshall and Plumb), but a simple show-and-tell is usually enough to grab the students' attention; you can easily expand your lectures around the demos and connect with theories and observations.

Maybe we'll talk about these in depth at the upcoming teaching workshop.
http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~nnn/workshop/ <https://vpnserver-pub.smhi.se/http/0/geosci.uchicago.edu/~nnn/workshop/> 

Cheers,

Noboru Nakamura
Department of Geophysical Sciences
University of Chicago

	Shafer,

	Yes, I can highly recommend it since it conveys the author's great insight and love of the ocean system. The only black spot is a erroneous explanation of the Coriolis effect, following the common Hadley (1735) explanation, if I remember correctly. Hopefully that has changed in the new edition. For a correct one, consult Roland Stull's book on practical meteorology.

	Regarding the Hadley explanation, I have just had a paper accepted by the Roy Met Soc where I show that it not only partly wrong, but 100% wrong: the differences of speeds of the latitudes has NOTHING at all to do with the Coriolis effect.

	There is also a good book on dynamics of ocean and atmosphere by a Belgian-American author whose double name I cannot remember just now.

	Anders

	-----Original Message-----
	From: discuss-bounces at atmosocean.org on behalf of Remi Tailleux
	Sent: Wed 12/12/2007 10:01 PM
	To: shafer at cims.nyu.edu; discuss at atmosocean.org
	Subject: Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation

	   Hi Shafer,

	you may have a look at Neil Wells textbook, Atmosphere/Ocean a physical
	introduction, Wiley, which although somewhat dated (a new edition is
	underway), seems an appropriate introduction at the undergrad level you are
	referring to....

	Good luck,
	best wishes,
	Remi.

	On Dec 12 2007, Shafer Smith wrote:

	>Dear colleagues,
	>
	> I'm looking for a recommendation for an undergraduate text on
	> weather/climate. In particular, looking for something one notch (or half
	> notch) lower level than the new book by Marshall and Plumb. As
	> calibration, the course on which Marshall and Plumb is based at MIT has a
	> prerequisite of multivariate calculus and physics I; I'm shooting for
	> something appropriate to students who know 1d calculus and a little
	> physics. Ideally the course will employ rotating tank demonstrations. Any
	> comments or recommendations welcome!
	>
	>Thanks in advance,
	>Shafer
	>
	>

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